A really good read Msgr. It has gotten me reflecting along multiple different lines.
First, is on the ongoing liturgical conflict and how it has influenced me towards sin. I find worryingly an elitist and judgemental attitude and thoughts coming to me during the mass, when other parishioners "stray" from the GIRM. Part of this built up because I am a convert so I had to study what to do in the mass, but part of it is a holier than thou judgment and projection of my own feelings.
So when I see my fellow parishioners do things that I wouldn't do, I try to find the good in what they are doing. When I see more traditional practices I need to remind myself that they do it out of reverence and love. And when I see more liberal practices I remind myself that they are either A. Volunteering to serve the church, a good and holy act. B. That it may be how they were taught. C. I don't actually know what is going on in their day and maybe just showing up is a great triumph that the angels will celebrate.
I am reminded of a Sunday where the piano player was quite clearly a beginner and to be frank not very good. And yet here she was trying her best to offer praise to God and offering up her time and potential embarrassment to serve. Which was more than I was doing since I have left my piano skills atrophy.
The second line of thinking is your point on pulling from Evangelical Protestants. As a convert from that movement I hope to offer some thoughts on We and Jesus.
Your point on an over emphasis on personal relationships certainly rings true. It troubles me when I see practices like church shopping follow me to Catholicism. I have seen and heard of various protestant communities ripped apart by secondary concerns like music, or language used. You will also often see people shop around to find which church will suit their exact desires as that is where they feel “closest” to God.
That being said, any former evangelical will probably say one of the biggest culture shocks to becoming catholic is the lack of fellowship before and after the mass. It was very strange going from 50% of parishioners sticking around after for coffee and small talk, and monthly potlucks. To virtually everyone leaving right afterwards with maybe a community meal 4 times a year. It can leave a convert a bit lonely while they integrate into the Catholic community.
Sorry for a bit of a long rambling reply just lots of thoughts. I hope your Pascal season goes well. God Bless.
I was in mass once, and the priest told us all to stand and look our neighbor in the eye. "That," he said, "is the face of Christ." Unless the liturgy brings us there, I'm not sure what it's doing.
@Msgr. Arthur Holquin, S.T.L. This was a very good read, well worth pondering and reflecting on. I largely agree with your critique, but there are a few things that may require clarification.
First, the Novus Ordo contains so many options that its celebration will inherently reflect the product of individual choice. You mentioned Ad Orientem, but off the top of my head I can also think of
the textual options (Which penitential act? Which Eucharistic Prayer? “in these or similar words”, etc),
the choice of music (which even allows the celebrant to replace some of the propers with hymns of his choice),
the use and number of EMHCs,
whether Communion will be distributed under both kinds,
the amount of latin,
the use of female altar servers
whether the lectors skip the “bracketed” sections of “difficult” scripture passages,
the individual communicant’s choice of communion standing or kneeling (which is allowed under the GIRM), etc.
Doesn’t the NO’s “rubrically light” approach inherently lend itself to a certain narcissism, whether on the part of the celebrant or the “liturgy committee”?
Second, would you apply this standard to dissent “from the left”, so to speak? I understand you are a man of the left, and i’m not here to judge you for that. But, during the Summorum Pontificum era, there were Bishops who denied requests for the TLM from the laity, despite being instructed by Rome to be lenient in granting those requests. Furthermore, is Fr. James Martin, for example, thinking with the Church when he advocates for changing the Catechism to reflect his political/social views?
Third, how would this apply to the early liturgical movement? Many of the participants blatantly violated then-current liturgical law to conduct “experiments” that were only later approved by Rome (see the monks at Maria Laach praying the Mass in German). Many more openly criticized the TLM to advocate for change. In fact, Mediator Dei sought to reign in the excesses of the liturgical movement. Were these expressions of narcissism, or expressions of the Holy Spirit?
Finally, what would your advice be to a young Catholic who simply does not feel “fed” by the Novus Ordo compared to the TLM? Is this just an expression of his narcissism that he needs to “get over”, or should the Church make some effort to accommodate him? (This is a genuine question btw, and one I often struggle with).
Thank you for writing this article Monsignor, I genuinely enjoyed it and will recommend it to my friends.
Absolutely Monsignor! Thank you for taking the time to talk. I’ve become a pretty avid reader of your blog. I hope your lent has been prayerful and productive.
@Msgr. Arthur Holquin, S.T.L. Sorry to bother you Monsignor, but have you had a chance to think about these questions? I’m eagerly anticipating some feedback.
Thank you for such a substantive and respectful engagement with the essay and for your patience. I’ve been working on a number of essays, etc. These are excellent questions that deserve careful responses.
On the Novus Ordo's options and potential for narcissism:
You're absolutely right that the reformed liturgy contains many options, and yes, these can be abused. But there's a crucial distinction: legitimate options provided by the Church for pastoral adaptation are not inherently narcissistic. The question is how and why those options are exercised.
A pastor who carefully discerns which Eucharistic Prayer best serves his congregation's spiritual formation is exercising pastoral judgment for the sake of the assembly. A pastor who chooses Eucharistic Prayer II every day because "it's shortest" is being narcissistic. The "rubrically light" approach is designed to foster the communal and local nature of liturgy—allowing legitimate inculturation and pastoral sensitivity. The problem isn't the options themselves; it's when those options are exercised for "me" rather than "we." On the other hand, I know a young priest at our cathedral who refuses to pray any other EP than the Roman Canon, thus depriving the assembly of the fullness of Eucharistic theology as expressed in the richness of our eucharistic euchology. Why? Because he deems it more ‘orthodox’ than the others? Ecclesial mindset takes a back seat to a liturgically narcissistic one.
On dissent "from the left":
Absolutely, my critique applies equally across the ideological spectrum. A bishop who arbitrarily refused legitimate requests for the pre-reformed rite during the Summorum Pontificum era was exhibiting narcissistic preference of personal judgment over ecclesial communion. Any theologian—Fr. James Martin, myself, or anyone—must be held accountable when advocacy crosses into obstinate dissent from defined teaching. BTW, from my reading, Fr. Martin is not advocating for a change in the church’s doctrine but rather a change in tone toward the LGBTQ community similar to Pope Francis.
The narcissism I'm critiquing isn't about left or right—it's about placing personal discernment above the Church's authority and communal wisdom. That temptation afflicts all of us across the spectrum.
On the early liturgical movement:
There's an important difference between creative experimentation within the life of the Church that seeks ecclesial approval, and unilateral rejection of ecclesial authority. The early liturgical reformers were engaging in theological and pastoral exploration that they ultimately submitted to the Church's judgment. When Pius XII offered corrections in Mediator Dei, he was guiding and refining the movement—which bore fruit precisely because it operated within ecclesial communion, not in defiance of it.
On the young Catholic who doesn't feel "fed" by the Novus Ordo:
This is the most pastoral of your questions. It's not simply narcissism to be drawn to the pre-reformed rite, nor should anyone be told to "just get over it." Legitimate liturgical sensibility is real and deserves pastoral care.
If the pre-reformed rite nourishes your faith and draws you closer to Christ, participate in it where it's legitimately offered. But don't let that preference metastasize into rejection of the reformed liturgy or the authority that promulgated it. Don't conclude that the Novus Ordo is invalid, inferior, defective or less Catholic. Don't separate yourself from parishes that celebrate only the reformed liturgy.
Ask yourself why you feel more fed by the pre-reformed rite. Is it the reverence? Then work to bring that reverence to the Novus Ordo in your parish. Is it the sense of mystery? That mystery is equally present in the reformed liturgy—perhaps your parish needs better celebration. The Latin, chant, and silence you love are fully permitted in the reformed liturgy.
The danger I see is young Catholics who use their preference for the pre-reformed rite to opt out of parish life, to avoid the hard work of building up the Body of Christ in their local community, to create an elite spiritual club. That is the narcissism I'm critiquing.
Your faith journey must be about "we and Jesus," not just "me and Jesus." That means staying in communion with the whole Church, even when her liturgical expression doesn't match your ideal. The little old lady praying her rosary during the contemporary Mass, the teenager serving at the guitar Mass—they are all the Body of Christ, and your communion with them is more important than your liturgical preferences.
My pastoral counsel: Attend the pre-reformed rite if it's available and nourishes you. But also occasionally attend the reformed liturgy in your territorial parish. Stay connected. Don't let liturgical preference become ecclesial division. Work to bring the best of what you love—reverence, beauty, mystery—into whatever liturgical context you find yourself.
Thank you again for such thoughtful engagement and your patience!
I have nothing to disagree with in this piece, Msgr., however, I feel that there is something missing.
Many suburban parishes substitute the "We" of the Mystical Body of Christ for the "we" of "this congregation, here in this moment." This kind of "congregationalism" serves a kind of too-small-minded "we" as exemplified by the opening lines of the song, "Our God is Here":
"Here in this time, here in this place
Here we are standing face to face"
I would venture that this is a kind of "community narcissism" that completely misses the sacramental, history-sanctifying, supra-temporal union of the Church celebrating "here in this place" with the Global Church and the Heavenly Church.
It might be that SOME the traditionalists whom you excoriate are not actually lacking in understanding of the Communion dimension of liturgy--rather, they may be lacking in the vocabulary to explain that the banal feel-good liturgy of suburban America is smothering us with the people next to us, while cutting us off from the Sacramental Mystici Corporis Christi.
Which is not to say that we SHOULDN'T have communion with the people next to us. But you don't build community by telling a bunch of people: "Be a community!" As Romano Guardini explained: our Unity is effected by our One, Shared Call, and our response to the One who calls us.
Jeff, you have put your finger on something I left insufficiently developed, and I am grateful for the precision you bring to it. "Community narcissism" is exactly the right phrase — and it is arguably more insidious than the individual variety, because it wears the respectable garments of fellowship and inclusion while quietly collapsing the eschatological horizon of the liturgy.
Your reading of "Our God Is Here" is theologically acute. That lyric locates the sacred almost entirely in the horizontal and the immediate — "here in this time, here in this place, face to face" — with scarcely a gesture toward the anamnetic dimension that makes Christian worship something other than a very sincere group meeting. The Eucharist does not merely gather us to one another; it inserts us into a celebrating Church that stretches from the Upper Room to the Parousia. When that vertical and diachronic axis collapses, what remains is precisely what you describe: communion with the people next to us, severed from communion with the Mystici Corporis across time and eternity.
Your point about the traditionalists is one I want to sit with honestly. You are right that I risk a certain unfairness: some who are drawn to the pre-reformed rite are, at some inchoate level, sensing exactly this suffocation — the smothering smallness of a liturgy that mirrors the congregation back to itself rather than opening it toward Mystery. Their instinct may be sound even when their articulation is polemical or their conclusions ecclesiologically untenable.
And the Guardini point is decisive. Community is not produced by commanding community into existence. It is the fruit — never the goal — of a shared orientation toward the One who calls. *Sursum corda* is not "turn to your neighbor." It is a summons upward, and it is only in that shared upward turning that genuine communion — with the living, the dead, and the not-yet-born — becomes possible.
Thank you for the charitable and theologically serious intervention. You have given me material for a follow-up piece.
A interesting read again Msgr. I'm a convert from Evangelical Protestantism, and it has certainly been a culture shift to become Catholic.
I have kind of two different streams of thought on your article.
First is that it is a good reminder for me to reflect on a certain narcissistic and elitist attitude I find in myself especially at mass. I find myself judging the other parishioners for their actions during the mass. It is a behavior I think I should bring to confession more. Nevertheless, when I find these thoughts arising I try to remind myself that these are my brothers and sisters, and to try to find what is beautiful in their actions.
Here in the Diocese of Orange, I encouraged via respectful letters / emails / phone conversations to the diocesan leadership and parish priests to encourage an active expression of synodal listening during the Church's global synod process, along with supporting grassroots synodal listening sessions (this was done after after contacting the Vatican synod office and sharing about the local lack of a diocesan synodal process, so the Vatican synod office said to do grassroots listening sessions and share results with the Vatican and diocese, which we did), because the diocese only allowed the pastor to select six people to participate in synod listening sessions, and some parishes did not participate or the pastor would not share who they sent.
Last year myself and other people who supported the global synod process were told we could not participate in assisting diocesan parishes create more synodal parish councils. Early this year, I was notified the diocese by a letter with numerous misrepresentations, including my participation in the synodal process, using synodal symbols, that were available on the Vatican website for people to download, on materials in our grassroots synod outreach, etc. that I was banned from all activities in the Diocese of Orange. So by attempting to foster a Church of we and Jesus, I have been banned from the diocese !
Great article as always.. (unrelated, however..) I am wondering about what you think of the Norbertines of Silverado, since I believe they are in your diocese. I know many of the Fathers there and attend one of their parishes.
Hi Francis, I have a number of dear Norbertine friends from the Abbey including Abbot Eugene who I've known since we were young priests and Fr. Claude. The Abbey Church is an exquisite artistic example of Romanesque and iconography together with a lovely Shoenstein organ. Their liturgical customary is rather unique to them and while celebrating the Novus Ordo, as you know, is enriched with many elements of our tradition, including chant that is typical of monastic communities - though they are not monastics in the strict sense but canons regular. I have some personal perspectives on their liturgical customary but prefer to keep them personal. I'm surprised that they continue to celebrate a usus antiquior Mass at their parish Church contrary to the limitations of Traditiones Custodes. We agree to disagree amicably about liturgical theology! It's a big tent! Blessings!
Oh nice! Yes I knew Fr. Claude well before he was moved to Rome, but he is a very nice priest, and I appreciate all the work he did for the Black Catholic community in the region.
Msgr, great teaching on the Church as Mystical Body. I was baptized RCCatholic. But in the last 5 years have been worshipping with my wife at an independent Catholic Church, not recognized by Rome and part of the Ecumenical Catholic Communion. It is a great, lively, loving small parish, very inclusive of all, including LGBTQ Folks . I love the spirit and liveliness of the parish. But, I still feel a need to be connected to the RCC so I attend weekday Mass 1–2 times per week. I wish God was leading me back to the RCC but I do not get the feeling He wants me there. My wife probably will never return to the RCC for many reasons, especially the sex abuse crisis. Please pray for me, Msgr. It’s very frustrating. Thank you.
Is the congregation you're in now lacking sinners? I don't understand the "clerics did bad things so, that's the end of that for whole Catholic Church."
Whatever you're attending now is not an independent Catholic church (parish), because no such thing exists. I imagine it would be Anglican affiliation? In that we're having honesty problems, too here unfortunately.
Lastly, it does sound like God is leading you back to the Catholic Church or otherwise you wouldn't feel the need to go to daily Mass. What you do with that is up to you and would encourage to keep going, but not take communion. I will pray for sure. God bless.
A really good read Msgr. It has gotten me reflecting along multiple different lines.
First, is on the ongoing liturgical conflict and how it has influenced me towards sin. I find worryingly an elitist and judgemental attitude and thoughts coming to me during the mass, when other parishioners "stray" from the GIRM. Part of this built up because I am a convert so I had to study what to do in the mass, but part of it is a holier than thou judgment and projection of my own feelings.
So when I see my fellow parishioners do things that I wouldn't do, I try to find the good in what they are doing. When I see more traditional practices I need to remind myself that they do it out of reverence and love. And when I see more liberal practices I remind myself that they are either A. Volunteering to serve the church, a good and holy act. B. That it may be how they were taught. C. I don't actually know what is going on in their day and maybe just showing up is a great triumph that the angels will celebrate.
I am reminded of a Sunday where the piano player was quite clearly a beginner and to be frank not very good. And yet here she was trying her best to offer praise to God and offering up her time and potential embarrassment to serve. Which was more than I was doing since I have left my piano skills atrophy.
The second line of thinking is your point on pulling from Evangelical Protestants. As a convert from that movement I hope to offer some thoughts on We and Jesus.
Your point on an over emphasis on personal relationships certainly rings true. It troubles me when I see practices like church shopping follow me to Catholicism. I have seen and heard of various protestant communities ripped apart by secondary concerns like music, or language used. You will also often see people shop around to find which church will suit their exact desires as that is where they feel “closest” to God.
That being said, any former evangelical will probably say one of the biggest culture shocks to becoming catholic is the lack of fellowship before and after the mass. It was very strange going from 50% of parishioners sticking around after for coffee and small talk, and monthly potlucks. To virtually everyone leaving right afterwards with maybe a community meal 4 times a year. It can leave a convert a bit lonely while they integrate into the Catholic community.
Sorry for a bit of a long rambling reply just lots of thoughts. I hope your Pascal season goes well. God Bless.
Thank you so much for this very thoughtful comment.
I was in mass once, and the priest told us all to stand and look our neighbor in the eye. "That," he said, "is the face of Christ." Unless the liturgy brings us there, I'm not sure what it's doing.
@Msgr. Arthur Holquin, S.T.L. This was a very good read, well worth pondering and reflecting on. I largely agree with your critique, but there are a few things that may require clarification.
First, the Novus Ordo contains so many options that its celebration will inherently reflect the product of individual choice. You mentioned Ad Orientem, but off the top of my head I can also think of
the textual options (Which penitential act? Which Eucharistic Prayer? “in these or similar words”, etc),
the choice of music (which even allows the celebrant to replace some of the propers with hymns of his choice),
the use and number of EMHCs,
whether Communion will be distributed under both kinds,
the amount of latin,
the use of female altar servers
whether the lectors skip the “bracketed” sections of “difficult” scripture passages,
the individual communicant’s choice of communion standing or kneeling (which is allowed under the GIRM), etc.
Doesn’t the NO’s “rubrically light” approach inherently lend itself to a certain narcissism, whether on the part of the celebrant or the “liturgy committee”?
Second, would you apply this standard to dissent “from the left”, so to speak? I understand you are a man of the left, and i’m not here to judge you for that. But, during the Summorum Pontificum era, there were Bishops who denied requests for the TLM from the laity, despite being instructed by Rome to be lenient in granting those requests. Furthermore, is Fr. James Martin, for example, thinking with the Church when he advocates for changing the Catechism to reflect his political/social views?
Third, how would this apply to the early liturgical movement? Many of the participants blatantly violated then-current liturgical law to conduct “experiments” that were only later approved by Rome (see the monks at Maria Laach praying the Mass in German). Many more openly criticized the TLM to advocate for change. In fact, Mediator Dei sought to reign in the excesses of the liturgical movement. Were these expressions of narcissism, or expressions of the Holy Spirit?
Finally, what would your advice be to a young Catholic who simply does not feel “fed” by the Novus Ordo compared to the TLM? Is this just an expression of his narcissism that he needs to “get over”, or should the Church make some effort to accommodate him? (This is a genuine question btw, and one I often struggle with).
Thank you for writing this article Monsignor, I genuinely enjoyed it and will recommend it to my friends.
All excellent questions. Give me a couple of days. What with my Lenten homilies, I can’t get back to you quickly
Absolutely Monsignor! Thank you for taking the time to talk. I’ve become a pretty avid reader of your blog. I hope your lent has been prayerful and productive.
@Msgr. Arthur Holquin, S.T.L. Sorry to bother you Monsignor, but have you had a chance to think about these questions? I’m eagerly anticipating some feedback.
I’m so sorry for the delay. I promise I’ll respond tomorrow.
No need to apologize Monsignor! God bless.
Thank you for such a substantive and respectful engagement with the essay and for your patience. I’ve been working on a number of essays, etc. These are excellent questions that deserve careful responses.
On the Novus Ordo's options and potential for narcissism:
You're absolutely right that the reformed liturgy contains many options, and yes, these can be abused. But there's a crucial distinction: legitimate options provided by the Church for pastoral adaptation are not inherently narcissistic. The question is how and why those options are exercised.
A pastor who carefully discerns which Eucharistic Prayer best serves his congregation's spiritual formation is exercising pastoral judgment for the sake of the assembly. A pastor who chooses Eucharistic Prayer II every day because "it's shortest" is being narcissistic. The "rubrically light" approach is designed to foster the communal and local nature of liturgy—allowing legitimate inculturation and pastoral sensitivity. The problem isn't the options themselves; it's when those options are exercised for "me" rather than "we." On the other hand, I know a young priest at our cathedral who refuses to pray any other EP than the Roman Canon, thus depriving the assembly of the fullness of Eucharistic theology as expressed in the richness of our eucharistic euchology. Why? Because he deems it more ‘orthodox’ than the others? Ecclesial mindset takes a back seat to a liturgically narcissistic one.
On dissent "from the left":
Absolutely, my critique applies equally across the ideological spectrum. A bishop who arbitrarily refused legitimate requests for the pre-reformed rite during the Summorum Pontificum era was exhibiting narcissistic preference of personal judgment over ecclesial communion. Any theologian—Fr. James Martin, myself, or anyone—must be held accountable when advocacy crosses into obstinate dissent from defined teaching. BTW, from my reading, Fr. Martin is not advocating for a change in the church’s doctrine but rather a change in tone toward the LGBTQ community similar to Pope Francis.
The narcissism I'm critiquing isn't about left or right—it's about placing personal discernment above the Church's authority and communal wisdom. That temptation afflicts all of us across the spectrum.
On the early liturgical movement:
There's an important difference between creative experimentation within the life of the Church that seeks ecclesial approval, and unilateral rejection of ecclesial authority. The early liturgical reformers were engaging in theological and pastoral exploration that they ultimately submitted to the Church's judgment. When Pius XII offered corrections in Mediator Dei, he was guiding and refining the movement—which bore fruit precisely because it operated within ecclesial communion, not in defiance of it.
On the young Catholic who doesn't feel "fed" by the Novus Ordo:
This is the most pastoral of your questions. It's not simply narcissism to be drawn to the pre-reformed rite, nor should anyone be told to "just get over it." Legitimate liturgical sensibility is real and deserves pastoral care.
If the pre-reformed rite nourishes your faith and draws you closer to Christ, participate in it where it's legitimately offered. But don't let that preference metastasize into rejection of the reformed liturgy or the authority that promulgated it. Don't conclude that the Novus Ordo is invalid, inferior, defective or less Catholic. Don't separate yourself from parishes that celebrate only the reformed liturgy.
Ask yourself why you feel more fed by the pre-reformed rite. Is it the reverence? Then work to bring that reverence to the Novus Ordo in your parish. Is it the sense of mystery? That mystery is equally present in the reformed liturgy—perhaps your parish needs better celebration. The Latin, chant, and silence you love are fully permitted in the reformed liturgy.
The danger I see is young Catholics who use their preference for the pre-reformed rite to opt out of parish life, to avoid the hard work of building up the Body of Christ in their local community, to create an elite spiritual club. That is the narcissism I'm critiquing.
Your faith journey must be about "we and Jesus," not just "me and Jesus." That means staying in communion with the whole Church, even when her liturgical expression doesn't match your ideal. The little old lady praying her rosary during the contemporary Mass, the teenager serving at the guitar Mass—they are all the Body of Christ, and your communion with them is more important than your liturgical preferences.
My pastoral counsel: Attend the pre-reformed rite if it's available and nourishes you. But also occasionally attend the reformed liturgy in your territorial parish. Stay connected. Don't let liturgical preference become ecclesial division. Work to bring the best of what you love—reverence, beauty, mystery—into whatever liturgical context you find yourself.
Thank you again for such thoughtful engagement and your patience!
Msgr. Arthur Holquin
I have nothing to disagree with in this piece, Msgr., however, I feel that there is something missing.
Many suburban parishes substitute the "We" of the Mystical Body of Christ for the "we" of "this congregation, here in this moment." This kind of "congregationalism" serves a kind of too-small-minded "we" as exemplified by the opening lines of the song, "Our God is Here":
"Here in this time, here in this place
Here we are standing face to face"
I would venture that this is a kind of "community narcissism" that completely misses the sacramental, history-sanctifying, supra-temporal union of the Church celebrating "here in this place" with the Global Church and the Heavenly Church.
It might be that SOME the traditionalists whom you excoriate are not actually lacking in understanding of the Communion dimension of liturgy--rather, they may be lacking in the vocabulary to explain that the banal feel-good liturgy of suburban America is smothering us with the people next to us, while cutting us off from the Sacramental Mystici Corporis Christi.
Which is not to say that we SHOULDN'T have communion with the people next to us. But you don't build community by telling a bunch of people: "Be a community!" As Romano Guardini explained: our Unity is effected by our One, Shared Call, and our response to the One who calls us.
Jeff, you have put your finger on something I left insufficiently developed, and I am grateful for the precision you bring to it. "Community narcissism" is exactly the right phrase — and it is arguably more insidious than the individual variety, because it wears the respectable garments of fellowship and inclusion while quietly collapsing the eschatological horizon of the liturgy.
Your reading of "Our God Is Here" is theologically acute. That lyric locates the sacred almost entirely in the horizontal and the immediate — "here in this time, here in this place, face to face" — with scarcely a gesture toward the anamnetic dimension that makes Christian worship something other than a very sincere group meeting. The Eucharist does not merely gather us to one another; it inserts us into a celebrating Church that stretches from the Upper Room to the Parousia. When that vertical and diachronic axis collapses, what remains is precisely what you describe: communion with the people next to us, severed from communion with the Mystici Corporis across time and eternity.
Your point about the traditionalists is one I want to sit with honestly. You are right that I risk a certain unfairness: some who are drawn to the pre-reformed rite are, at some inchoate level, sensing exactly this suffocation — the smothering smallness of a liturgy that mirrors the congregation back to itself rather than opening it toward Mystery. Their instinct may be sound even when their articulation is polemical or their conclusions ecclesiologically untenable.
And the Guardini point is decisive. Community is not produced by commanding community into existence. It is the fruit — never the goal — of a shared orientation toward the One who calls. *Sursum corda* is not "turn to your neighbor." It is a summons upward, and it is only in that shared upward turning that genuine communion — with the living, the dead, and the not-yet-born — becomes possible.
Thank you for the charitable and theologically serious intervention. You have given me material for a follow-up piece.
A interesting read again Msgr. I'm a convert from Evangelical Protestantism, and it has certainly been a culture shift to become Catholic.
I have kind of two different streams of thought on your article.
First is that it is a good reminder for me to reflect on a certain narcissistic and elitist attitude I find in myself especially at mass. I find myself judging the other parishioners for their actions during the mass. It is a behavior I think I should bring to confession more. Nevertheless, when I find these thoughts arising I try to remind myself that these are my brothers and sisters, and to try to find what is beautiful in their actions.
Here in the Diocese of Orange, I encouraged via respectful letters / emails / phone conversations to the diocesan leadership and parish priests to encourage an active expression of synodal listening during the Church's global synod process, along with supporting grassroots synodal listening sessions (this was done after after contacting the Vatican synod office and sharing about the local lack of a diocesan synodal process, so the Vatican synod office said to do grassroots listening sessions and share results with the Vatican and diocese, which we did), because the diocese only allowed the pastor to select six people to participate in synod listening sessions, and some parishes did not participate or the pastor would not share who they sent.
Last year myself and other people who supported the global synod process were told we could not participate in assisting diocesan parishes create more synodal parish councils. Early this year, I was notified the diocese by a letter with numerous misrepresentations, including my participation in the synodal process, using synodal symbols, that were available on the Vatican website for people to download, on materials in our grassroots synod outreach, etc. that I was banned from all activities in the Diocese of Orange. So by attempting to foster a Church of we and Jesus, I have been banned from the diocese !
Dear Monsignor,
Great article as always.. (unrelated, however..) I am wondering about what you think of the Norbertines of Silverado, since I believe they are in your diocese. I know many of the Fathers there and attend one of their parishes.
Hi Francis, I have a number of dear Norbertine friends from the Abbey including Abbot Eugene who I've known since we were young priests and Fr. Claude. The Abbey Church is an exquisite artistic example of Romanesque and iconography together with a lovely Shoenstein organ. Their liturgical customary is rather unique to them and while celebrating the Novus Ordo, as you know, is enriched with many elements of our tradition, including chant that is typical of monastic communities - though they are not monastics in the strict sense but canons regular. I have some personal perspectives on their liturgical customary but prefer to keep them personal. I'm surprised that they continue to celebrate a usus antiquior Mass at their parish Church contrary to the limitations of Traditiones Custodes. We agree to disagree amicably about liturgical theology! It's a big tent! Blessings!
Oh nice! Yes I knew Fr. Claude well before he was moved to Rome, but he is a very nice priest, and I appreciate all the work he did for the Black Catholic community in the region.
Wonderful article, Msnr, thank you!
Msgr, great teaching on the Church as Mystical Body. I was baptized RCCatholic. But in the last 5 years have been worshipping with my wife at an independent Catholic Church, not recognized by Rome and part of the Ecumenical Catholic Communion. It is a great, lively, loving small parish, very inclusive of all, including LGBTQ Folks . I love the spirit and liveliness of the parish. But, I still feel a need to be connected to the RCC so I attend weekday Mass 1–2 times per week. I wish God was leading me back to the RCC but I do not get the feeling He wants me there. My wife probably will never return to the RCC for many reasons, especially the sex abuse crisis. Please pray for me, Msgr. It’s very frustrating. Thank you.
Michael
Is the congregation you're in now lacking sinners? I don't understand the "clerics did bad things so, that's the end of that for whole Catholic Church."
Whatever you're attending now is not an independent Catholic church (parish), because no such thing exists. I imagine it would be Anglican affiliation? In that we're having honesty problems, too here unfortunately.
Lastly, it does sound like God is leading you back to the Catholic Church or otherwise you wouldn't feel the need to go to daily Mass. What you do with that is up to you and would encourage to keep going, but not take communion. I will pray for sure. God bless.